Update 5/20/20: One thing that I didn’t cover during the change from SCRA to MLA is that business cards are no longer covered and military members are not having the annual fees on those cards waived any longer (this doesn’t affect existing cards, only new cards). Hat tip to reader cinnab0nn
Update 1/29/20: American Express has confirmed that eligible users that have been denied under SCRA due to the account being opened after active duty start date will continue to be eligible for an annual fee waiver under the MLA program. MLA eligibility should be done automatically, but if cardholders don’t have it automatically applied they are encouraged to contact American express. Hat tip to Military Money Manual.
Original post: American Express offers benefits for military cardholders, there are two types of benefits:
The major difference between MLA and SCRA is the SCRA focuses on existing debts when a service member enters into active duty and MLA focuses on credit extended to existing active duty members. American Express offers benefits above and beyond what is required by law. For example American Express has traditionally waived annual fees for all active duty military. According to users on reddit as of January, 2020 American Express is no longer waiving fees for cards that were opened after their active duty start date.
Previously American Express waived the annual fees for cards that were opened after the active duty start date under SCRA, whereas they should have be waiving the fees under MLA (keep in mind waiving annual fees is not a requirement of either SCRA or MLA but that SCRA has to do with credit issued before entering active duty and MLA has to do with credit issued after entering active duty). I suspect what will happen is that American Express will continue to waive fees under MLA, but you’ll need to request them to be waived under MLA rather than SCRA (seems to be backed up by this chat rep, but they are unreliable at the best of times). At this stage some representatives are stating that this is not possible, whereas others are processing the fee waiver without issue. Existing cardholders with the annual fee waived are not being charged an annual fee, regardless of whether the card was opened before or after entering active duty status.
We have reached out to American Express for comment.
FYI — Under the new rules, cadets at the military academies (like West Point) are no longer being classified as “active duty military” and having their fees waived on new cards. The credit agencies list them as “cadet,” which is apparently not good enough for AMEX. This seems wrong to me because cadets ARE active duty military, but I don’t know how to complain about it, and to who.
“I dont know how to complain about it”. Too easy, you shut your lips and carry on. Life’s not fair Cadet Karen and if you keep your current entitlement you’re gonna have a rough time in service. Nobody likes a whiner.
And no one likes a smartass either. The benefit is for active duty military: cadets are active duty military and should therefore be entitled to it. What the heck is your problem with that? Do you enjoy it when people get screwed for no good reason? The problem with complaining in this instance is that even though the adverse change in AMEX’s policy is arbitrary and capricious, there’s no legal requirement for AMEX to offer it to anyone in the first place, so it’s hard to convince a rep to do anything about this obscure problem (which seems to stem from how the credit agencies now report academy attendance). Which sucks if you’re impacted.
If I were advising a cadet or midshipmen on credit, I’d likely advise them to select a basic (no annual fee) rewards or cash back card with USAA, Navy Fed and/or PENFED. Over their first few years, practice paying their CC bills in full along with any car and renters insurance with whatever fraction of their $1084.00 “active duty” income stream they see at the end of the month. Then, as a commissioned officer, worry about filling duffle bags with cards with annual fees (waived or not) and all the other travel benefits we cherish.
A Plebe with a Platinum card sounds like an issue waiting to happen. I don’t mean to suggest that one in 1000 couldn’t handle it, or that getting started on Gold Elite Bonvoy lifetime status or $15 monthly Uber credits couldn’t be beneficial over Christmas leave, but I’ve seen too many Mids run up their CCs to have too much heartburn about AMEX not waiving these fees.
Does anyone know when the “no business cards elligible for MLA” policy went into effect?
I had an active duty relative sign up for a business card in December, they are still giving him the runaround…
Also, didn’t see the cinnab0nn comment that William referenced in his update?
Possibly 20 Dec 2019 is when the new Amex business MLA policy went into effect and business cards are no longer fee waived.
The ads on mobile make some of your post hard to read. Please find a fix!
Can you take a pic of what you mean?
Sometimes the ad will squish text to the right of the ad and youll see this
The
Tex
t is
cut
off
so
it’s
har
der
to
rea
d.
Yep happens to me as well on mobile
Can you confirm it’s fixed now?
Can you confirm it’s fixed now?
Looks good to me on the 4 different pages I opened. Thanks for the quick fix!
They kept telling me MLA cannot be added to my account after the card was approved, they said the DOD didn’t have my registration when the card was applied so the system didn’t automatically enroll me under MLA. They are now saying it’s DOD’s fault. This is SO NOT TRUE!
They also said there is NOTHING they could do. What the heck!
you make no sense
Has anyone in the military who got billed an annual fee by AMEX gotten this issue resolved yet? My daughter’s SCRA application was denied because she opened the account after joining the military, and (as her designated account manager) I asked them to review the matter under the MLA. But we haven’t heard back in almost 2 weeks.
Did she open a business or personal? AF posted on my Business Delta Platinum. Rep said MLA only covers consumer credit account.
Personal. As her “account manager,” I called AMEX again as it has been 3 weeks since we resubmitted the request. They said we needed to wait for a response. Seems odd as they’ve always previously handled these matters within a week or two.
After 4 months contacting them about this issue, I could tell you that they will NOT resolve this for you. They kept telling me MLA cannot be added to my account after the card was approved, they said the DOD didn’t have my registration when the card was applied so the system didn’t automatically enroll me under MLA. They are now saying it’s DOD’s fault. This is SO NOT TRUE!
My guess is that Amex/Chase/whatever are not as altruistic as they appear. Income/IQ ratio is much higher for military than for the general pop. This should be exactly the target audience for cc companies – folks who carry thousands in cc balances. Personally, I do not care.
I highly doubt that, but would love to see your sources. Income/IQ indeed. You’re a jagoff.
This might actually be true. Not because military people have lower IQ than average. IQ of service members is probably higher, as the military won’t accept people with IQ’s that are too low, especially during times of “peace.” Military pay, however, is significantly higher than civilian pay, once you control for education, years of experience, skills. Of course, this won’t hold true in the upper tail of the distribution. The higher income likely outweighs the higher IQ though, meaning lilurbananachiever’s claim about the ratio is probably true. I’m not sure a high income: IQ ratio makes you more likely to hold a higher balance; I’d think that’d be more related to discipline or impulse control or financial edu, among other things. Even if the high ratio does increase the portion of people who hold a higher balance, I doubt it does by enough to offset all the fee waivers of everyone who isn’t holding a balance. Especially since premium cards like the platinum, which provide the most value from this benefit, generate the vast majority of revenue from annual fees and swipe fees.
Steve, you raise a good point, and more tactfully than the jagoff OP (the urbanachiever jagoff, not the cobol jagoff) I wonder how many military folks commit the cardinal sin of the game by carrying balances. Is it more or less than the general public?
I suspect anyone foolish enough to carry a balance wouldn’t pass the CC application, but then again, I suppose it’s the balance-carriers that allow the rest of us to get bonuses: they subsidize us the way poor jagoff John Waters subsidizes military people with higher fees.
Have I IDed all the jagoffs? No, there’s the guy who wants Wall Street bankers’ fees to get waived. 😀
Ugh, touched a nerve there, I guess. Funny how the public opinion swayed from despising the poor draftees during Vietnam to blindly supporting today’s well-paid professionals.
Some people are appreciative that they don’t have to serve in the military to experience the freedoms and leg-up received by being born in this country, and they extend that appreciation to those who risk their lives. I think that’s cool. I’m half-Korean, and all my Korean family members were mandated to serve in the military to maintain their countries lifestyle. They have a much deeper appreciation for their freedom, and a deeper connection to the sad necessity of a strong military force. Have you seen Israel stop all activities to honor the fallen? If not, you should look it up.
well paid….. lol
Don’t mind Mark, he’s one of those target audiences. Not sure why he’s been crying so hard in this entire considering how laws like SCRA and MLA were created specifically to protect him from his own stupidity.
Update! The most recent is on http://www.militarymoneymanual.com/amex-scra-denials/... same program basically just under MLA now. Good news!
Great. My only problem now is that some of my cards were not automatically enrolled into MLA (cards were opened before MLA was in effect) and reps have told me that you can only get it when you open NEW accounts.
Did you get this issue fixed?
As long as Chase continues to refund the fees, I don’t foresee AMEX ending it. But as a sidenote: maybe those getting the cards for free stop getting every card and abusing the hell out of this? Or at the very least, quit rubbing it in everyone’s face on blogs and YouTube. I swear some people see a golden goose and pull a knife immediately.
It’s strange to me that Amex & Chase don’t cap this at hypothetically two cards a piece or something.
Especially when club crowding and other issues are coming up now.
There are very few active duty military in the USA. Only about 1.3 million. They’re not taking your lounge seat, trust me. Besides, most of them are on a base somewhere doing their jobs. AMEX would certainly be within their rights to take these generous benefits away. But should they? I don’t think so, and I think the vast majority of Americans would agree with me about that.
Nothing is stopping Amex from turning down the service member’s application. Do my wife and I need 7x Amex card accounts between the two of us? No, but if Amex approves them, we will enjoy the benefits.
Only 7? Sounds like you need 3 more plus some charge cards. Unless only one of you is active duty.
Blame is also on Amex for not denying the app. I mean what logic is there to letting someone have 3 platinum cards? just create coding that will automatically deny the app, problem solved, but nooo it’s the customer’s fault of course
Well, AMEX could obviously restrict the number of “free” cards if they want to. I mean, that’s up to them, and not the peanut gallery. No one can really complain whatever AMEX decides to do about military cards, although I certainly believe they should go “beyond the law” to help out our service men and women. What is wrong is to change policy and say nothing, leaving folks — like my daughter — trying to figure out what’s going on when even AMEX’s own customer service staff has no idea.
“according to users on reddit”… that tells me all I need to know. I read through the thread and I’m going to chalk this up to over-hyped fake news unless something official comes from Amex. SCRA and MLA are two different things, SCRA will not apply if you open the card after joining AD which is why they got the declination letter from Amex. They never got charged an annual fee so all of this is fear mongering nonsense.
AMEX changed the way they interpreted the SCRA law for 10 years overnight without any communication or even informing their Customer Service Reps. It’s caused a lot of confusion of what is actually happening for AMEX’s military credit and charge card holders.
They don’t really owe us an explanation. But it would be nice to know what changed, why it changed, and what the rules are going forward.
> I’m going to chalk this up to over-hyped fake news unless something official comes from Amex
Lol, ok.
> SCRA and MLA are two different thing
We clearly understand that as demonstrated in the post.
> SCRA will not apply if you open the card after joining AD which is why they got the declination letter from Amex
That’s not how AmEx has applied the benefit in the past, thus the post.
Amex really hurts us civilian cardholders who have to pay higher fees and have reduced benefits to pay for fee waivers for a “special class” of people who are paid for their efforts already. 550 annual fee waived with a sign up bonus as high as 100,000 is ridiculous. Amex is not generating revenue from these people to offset the cost. For loans and other products Amex offers most in the military will go to USAA or other types that offer lower rates. The laws were not designed for premium credit cards that offer benefits and Amex has every right not to offer these benefits for those who sign up and apply for no fee.
Thank you for your service.
I agree with you on most of these points. People go into the military hopefully knowing full well what it entails. They are paid for their services, just as anyone else is. I just don’t see why they are a special class of people compared to the average hardworking civilian on the street doing their job day in and day out. Ok fine they might be in the line of fire, but so are police officers who may be shot at anytime, doctors/nurses who may contract coronavirus or whatever communicable disease out there, and even Wall Street bankers who in a downturn might be laid off at anytime. There’re existing laws that protect them like SCRA and MLA but business go above and beyond to help them because somehow that’s the cool thing to do (public image). But yeah there’re plenty of no military unsung heroes out there working their asses off and putting their butts in the line of fire too. Businesses need to make money too, so what really ends up happening is that these folk end up paying for military people’s annual fees and enjoyment of the card benefits.
Fair point, Wall Street bankers really do have it rough. An apt analogy, comparing their plight to that of police being shot at and military members being rocket-attacked for a miniscule fraction of the compensation.
Agreed. Amex is very generous to waive the fees on their cards in additional to their spouse’s. It is a better strategy to waive the annual fee for the card member’s most expensive card to save costs while preventing abuse and to maintain that generosity.
Cops perpetrate the war on drugs, the war on free speech (in Europe), the war on not wearing a seat belt, so us civilians actually face more risks than cops since millions each year suffer from police abuse and hundreds are killed unjustifiably by cops. Then we have black on white and non white latino on white violence which is extremely disproportionately high, and we civilians suffer thousands of deaths at their hands and millions of other crimes including rape, theft, battery and vandalism. Cops should not be in this discussion. As for soldiers, since they are not used at the border to protect sovereignty of real citizens, they are used overseas in areas they don’t belong and the civilians there suffer a lot even if that is not the intent of these soldiers who just blindly follow orders. Still most military members never leave the U.S., sit at a desk or repair aircraft, or work on ships which statistically is safer than being a civilian flying on a commercial aircraft. They receive good pay which increases every year and with promotions, earn a great pension with a certain amount of service, earn great benefits, have housing allowance, have combat duty pay and many receive signing bonuses and resigning bonuses.
Great take John 👌
1) Some people are appreciative that they don’t have to serve to experience the freedoms and leg-up received by being born in a developed country, and they extend that appreciation to those who risk their lives. I think that’s cool. I’m half-Korean, and all my Korean family members were mandated to serve in the military to maintain their countries lifestyle. They have a much deeper appreciation for their freedom, and a deeper connection to the sad necessity of a strong military force. Have you seen Israel stop all activities to honor the fallen? If not, you should look it up.
2) I don’t know if you’re well-traveled, but the natural state of humanity seems to be that cops are easily paid–off, and support their own interest instead of the systemic interest of the communities they serve. Check out Police Activity on Youtube, they post American body camera footage of everyday cops – from the truly evil, racist cops, to the everyday person doing their job. Make your own judgment, but I believe we (in the US) are truly lucky to be able to call a central number when we are in need, and have a 99% chance of having a caring person come to help us in need.
If you think they are the bane of societies problems, please consider than when you or one of your loved ones may need dire help one day.
they get tax breaks for this. next slide
1) After 10 years in the Army, with experience on the enlisted and officer side, most of the military is populated by people who joined before their prefrontal cortex has fully developed, and without an adequate understanding of how the world works. Most do not know what it’s like to be blown up or shot at, and how that would affect them for a lifetime. Even those who don’t see combat rarely understand the effect the lifestyle will take on their impressionable minds.
2) We have a volunteer force that influences the decisions of nations around the world. From 2006-2016, I was sent on plenty of assignments where I was a small part of a ‘message’ sent to other nations. We benefit from being the international reserve currency partially because people know America will not be easily toppled by war.
3) Some people are appreciative that they don’t have to serve to experience the freedoms and leg-up received by being born in this country, and they extend that appreciation to those who risk their lives. I think that’s cool. I’m half-Korean, and all my Korean family members were mandated to serve in the military to maintain their countries lifestyle. They have a much deeper appreciation for their freedom, and a deeper connection to the sad necessity of a strong military force. Have you seen Israel stop all activities to honor the fallen? If not, you should look it up.
Except that those in the line of fire can quit at any time.
They also don’t have fewer constitutional protections than a person visitng America on vacation.
UCMJ, as well as Local, State, Federal and if outside US possibly facing prosecution under foreign law’s.
Stop loss order’s, contract violations, VA health Care is a joke and has failed so many vets, disproportionate PTSD and lack of care. Lack of Suicide support. These issue are more Enlisted personnel issues.
Yes some have gravy jobs and postings. One thing that has changed is post 9-11 is that more Enlisted have Security clearance that can be parlayed into good paying private sector jobs.
I do find it hypocritical that people, cry over spilled milk because they can’t get theirs, yet that is part of the Churner game. You milk it for what it is worth based on what you can get while you can.
Yet I do think that it creates ill-will to those that flaunted it to civies.
At the very least fine if you wanna waive the AF then no sign up bonus.
Amex has more than made up the annual fees they waived for my cards through my usage. You are not subsidizing my cards. The waived annual fees just get more cards into the hands of consumers who would most likely not even consider a card with a $550 annual fee. I would have never even looked at a card like that, but now that I have had one for a few years, I’ve opened several other cards, a personal loan, and a HYSA with Amex. Could they offer the same thing to first responders and other public servants (bankers are not public servants)? Sure, they could, but showing military support is a one stop shop for a company to be “patriotic” in the eyes of the public.
A rough proxy for how much an issuer+network earns off you is about 2% for spending.
If you borrow on cards, it is much more variable, but you can use a 7% placeholder. Even if you pay everything off, one needs to account for the expected losses in a given pool of card holders. For Amex maybe that is 1-2%, for CapOne maybe 4-5%, for Sears it spiked at 13%.
You would have to be borrowing/spending a ton to make up all those fees.
To argue that it makes your fees higher, though, is a bridge too far. You could make the same argument about any business’s decisions, the charities they support, the investments they make, ad infinitum. And at the end of the day, you have the choice to refuse to “subsidize military servicemembers” and cancel your card: nobody is forcing you to keep your Platinum card.
How do service members even qualify for this card? I thought you needed a high 5 figure income, which I suppose most paygrades in the military don’t pay (or they lie).
“I thought” (wrong obvoiusly)
“or they lie” (classy!)
nonsense. heard someone report 30k income and got approved for the platinum. a 800 CS and good credit report can make up for that. The US amex platinum has no income requirement, but many other countries do for the Amex plat
Can I join this salty AF conversation? No one is stopping you from joining the Military in order to get the annual fees waived from all your glamorous travel cards. I’d consider that pretty F’d up if that was the reason you were joining, and your attitude would get called out pretty quick. But at least you won’t be paying any annual fees. You’ll be forced to go to the field for weeks on end, can’t call in sick, forced to work 100+ hour weeks, away from your family, and no overtime pay. But at least you won’t be paying any annual fees. You won’t be able to take a vacation whenever you feel like. And, whenever you make such a request, it doesn’t have to be approved until days before your vacation starts, and your boss can still say “nah, you ain’t going.” Or worse yet, you get to that bomb vacation spot in Hawaii, and even though you had requested 14 days of vacation, your boss can recall you back, even though you just got there. And getting back WILL be 100% at your own expense. But at least you won’t be paying any annual fees. You don’t get to choose where you live, you have no control over where you get stationed, you are “the needs of the Military.” And they’ll move you around wherever and whenever they damn well please. But at least you won’t be paying any annual fees. You hate your boss? Cuz he’s incompetent? Too bad, you can’t say sh*t about it to his face or you could face disciplinary punishment, causing you to lose your job title, and even a month’s worth of pay. And the worst that can come from your civilian boss’s incompetence is a report doesn’t get turned in on time. In the Military, their incompetence could cost you your limb, sight, or even life. But at least you won’t be paying any annual fees. Don’t like to workout? Woke up feeling ill? Your knee acting up? Tough. Everyday is run day, and you don’t get a choice. Don’t feel like throwing that 60lbs ruck on and doing a 12 mile ruck at 3am? Tough. You don’t get a choice. But at least you won’t be paying any annual fees. Don’t wanna deploy to Afghanistan? Tough. You don’t get a choice. But at least you won’t be paying any annual fees. Don’t wanna deploy to Kuwait to be breathing in the fumes from the constantly burning (literal) sh*t fires? Getting black lung for the rest of your life? Tough. You don’t get a choice. But at least you won’t be paying any annual fees. Joined to do a specific job? Cute, you thought you got a choice… you don’t. Hope you love working on broken vehicles all day in the motor pool. When it’s 120 degrees out, with no shade, you’re in the motor pool. When its -30 degrees and all you got is that POS jacket Clothing Issue… Read more »
Whoah, I love reading the details how ever i’m going to jump in with my 2 cents. Not everyone gets a service sign up bonus. Seen multiple teens try to enlist by asking for a MOS that has sign up bonus available. There are good recruiters mixed in the bad apple bunch. Some if not most actually secure a quality service member in a position that the recruit can excel in. Thats pretty harsh to lump everyone in the military in as boaster’s or unworthy because of a desk job. Trust instinct some people boast because it easier to wade in the pool of tears. The hours are long. Life tends to move so fast and all the pleasure of taking the time to enjoy life isn’t always cherished. At least for my family. Waiving the annual fee is a wonderful benefit that makes stressful times bare-able. Not everyone enlisted/commission is in the line of fire and that goes to the same with all said benefit. Theres always a wording in all contracts. I do understand with both sides however, i believe some civilian work in hard positions and deserve similar benefit. At the same time the civilian sector tends to offer a higher salary, while the military’s higher pay normally depends on moving to a location with higher cost of living. No matter how long and how hard work is done pay typically is the same. Thats another story and not something i’m qualified to even care about. Since everyone does not have the same story. Pay raise by federal. Uhmm, don’t know exact detail so don’t jump down my throat. Years back i remember pay was 1.5% maybe 1.2% E3 pay didn’t go very high. I was still very happy because it was like a free coffee every month. If the annual fee is done away i also have no problems i hate seeing the bragger and think its just going to make it difficult for everyone not just one community. Possible restriction is something i might consider because of the junior enlisted. They tend to run as fast as they can and I worry they can find themselves in financial trouble. All i can say is i’m thankful for the benefits and my family is happy to be of service wether we succeed or fail. Its all about the lives we affect. Being able to use the benefits is helpful traveling and Amex has benefitted handsomely for the merchant charges and most people i know don’t hit the minimum spend. Those that Refer people in there command, obviously benefits Amex pockets from new contract and continues the cycle of new members that might keep a balance. If anything i think AMEX should reduce the fee or monitor the credit card activity there are a few bad apples in every demographic. So thats more of something i would consider. Overall: i agree with Doc post Thanks for keeping all military readers aware of changes its helpful knowledge to… Read more »
Don’t be salty at the service members because you have to pay annual fees/higher fees on your premium cards that you chose to apply for. If you really want them waived, maybe you should join the service, go on a few deployments, miss out on your kids’ birthdays and anniversaries, then move around every two years to wherever they tell you to go for your new assignment, while your children adjust to their new schools again so that you get waived fees.
It should be considered an honor to serve your country and Amex just happens to honor the military by giving back. I’m sure your annual fees aren’t fronting for our waived fees.
Maybe you should think about who else to blame? how the bloggers? or the churners? self referrers? We play by the rules that’s presented to us but the ones that don’t should be the ones shouldering the blame.
@John Waters Most of us joined the military solely to get our card annual fees waived. Haven’t you heard?