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tuphat
tuphat (@guest_1963887)
December 4, 2024 12:26

As maybe others have noted: The whole Synapse bankruptcy debacle was independent of the safety & soundness of the partner banks, i.e., FDIC insurance was never a real issue. The problem lay in the poor recordkeeping, mainly by Synapse as middleware provider, whereby they “lost track” (to be polite) of individual account balances and transactions.

Maybe oversimplifying, but the banks knew they owed fintech customers $XXX million in the aggregate (held in massive FBO accounts), but didn’t have reliable enough individualized balances/records to support immediate payouts.

PS. In the wake of all this, the FDIC has proposed rules putting greater responsibility on banks for detailed records, reconciliations, etc.

lilurbanachiever
lilurbanachiever (@guest_1964059)
December 4, 2024 17:45

So… the setup was this so-called fintech, then another layer, then the bank. Basically confirms my impression that most fintechs are just smoke and mirrors to inflate the revenue and then somehow get the money by selling the never profitable fintechs to bigger institutions, or just waste the venture capital funding.

Here, the money went “missing”, and nobody seems to care. Trying to sue them as an individual or even as a group will be pretty onerous for the wronged customers. In short, I think even internet only real banks are not exactly safe, while these fintechs are good only for getting an occasional bonus out of them without putting more than a couple of thousands there, and only for a few months at most.

Also, the proposed changes by FDIC for yet more regulations and compliance departments will be paid for by the bank customers, i.e. by you and me. I am not exactly jumping up and down with joy.

tuphat
tuphat (@guest_1964722)
December 5, 2024 15:14

I think you’re maybe painting with too broad a brush. There are plenty of “internet only” banks with good customer service, product offerings, etc. While I think more rigorous recordkeeping is needed & desirable, who “pays for it” — customers vs shareholders — and whether doing business with fintechs is ultimately profitable for the banks will vary case by case.

Just my opinion.

Naddi
Naddi (@guest_1964150)
December 4, 2024 19:46

The additional burden on banks will probably mean banks won’t want to partner with fintechs anymore. This could spell the end for many fintechs. Frankly the industry deserves it. It couldn’t police itself and with each failure, garnered more bad press. Who would trust them now after the Nth fintech has failed?

Prad
Prad (@guest_1963784)
December 4, 2024 07:57

Where does Laurel Road stands?
I know it partners with key bank for FDIC insurance.

Fred
Fred (@guest_1963800)
December 4, 2024 09:00

I believe Laurel Road is a brand of Key Bank, not a partner.

Evilex
Evilex (@guest_1963806)
December 4, 2024 09:14

Fred is correct, i Was about to say this, look at it as having your money with pokemon instead of nintendo, basically the same thing.

Eric 🔗
Eric 🔗 (@guest_1964084)
December 4, 2024 18:28

I wasn’t aware that Pokemon was owned by Nintendo (and 2 other firms) until I just read your comment and confirmed it myself. Good analogy, BTW. 😀

Evilex
Evilex (@guest_1964091)
December 4, 2024 18:32

Ahahhaha thanks 😎

JD
JD (@guest_1964361)
December 5, 2024 08:44

Coincidentally, Nintendo started out as a playing card manufacturer back in the 1800s.

Eric 🔗
Eric 🔗 (@guest_1965192)
December 6, 2024 04:59
  JD

I was not aware of that either. I wonder if Evilex was.

Evilex
Evilex (@guest_1965271)
December 6, 2024 08:54

Nope i had no idea, but i did know they sell playing cards.

askmrlee
askmrlee (@guest_1964057)
December 4, 2024 17:45

Laurel Road is wholly owned by Key Bank. LR’s ACH routing numbers appear as Key Bank.

Chris
Chris (@guest_1963743)
December 4, 2024 00:57

From Wealthfront’s website: FDIC insurance is not provided until the funds arrive at the program banks. 

Jack
Jack (@guest_1965405)
December 6, 2024 12:35

How does it work with other banks?

BlissfulApathy
BlissfulApathy (@guest_1963723)
December 4, 2024 00:23

What about the funds in Coinbase Futures usd account? Is that insured by any insurance? Anyone? Guys? Folks? Dearest DoC readers?

Jay
Jay (@guest_1963834)
December 4, 2024 10:31

Haha

Carlzjr
Carlzjr (@guest_1963856)
December 4, 2024 11:22

‘saulgoodman, of course it is “ensured”

Kafka
Kafka (@guest_1963651)
December 3, 2024 21:00

I notice Future does not have the FDIC banner but gives you your account and routing numbers at Piermont Bank. Piermont got appropriately scuffed up by regulators in 2022, which shows serious problems, but also shows they actually have third-party oversight. Sort of a “devil you know” situation. Now that they have instant debit funding again, easy to limit the amount you keep there.

Midnight
Midnight (@guest_1963617)
December 3, 2024 20:18

Evolve recently returned my funds from Juno

Eric 🔗
Eric 🔗 (@guest_1964085)
December 4, 2024 18:29

You are fortunate if they returned all of your funds. Not all of us were so lucky. ☹

Mike
Mike (@guest_1963599)
December 3, 2024 19:37

I kept 100k at Juno for over 12 months when they were crediting 5%. They seemed legit to me. I count my blessings that they cut the rate to <1% before the fiasco and i instantly took out all my money. i have $140 left there that is i guess untraceable.

I consider myself enlightened now. Good article!

Eric 🔗
Eric 🔗 (@guest_1964087)
December 4, 2024 18:29

Evolve should have emailed you about the status of your $140 early last month. Did they do that?

Tonei Glavinic
Tonei Glavinic (@guest_1966751)
December 9, 2024 10:16

Presumably when Mike says “that is I guess untraceable” that means that evolve claims the funds appear on Synapse’s ledger but were not held at Evolve so Mike like so many of us was told to pound sand

Jonny
Jonny (@guest_1963596)
December 3, 2024 19:32

This scares me regarding Wealthfront. They claim there is insurance up to 8million but I don’t have any proof besides what Wealthfront shows me in the Wealthfront account. I don’t know where any of my money it is sitting at the moment.

Canyon Dancer
Canyon Dancer (@guest_1998125)
February 4, 2025 17:27

Your money goes to Green Dot Bank and has a routing number. From there I’m not sure but it gets distributed to other banks depending upon your balance, presumably $250K per bank? Or is it distributed evenly across all the member FDIC banks listed? It’s unclear to me. If Wealthfront goes, are they the ones with the records of amounts sent when and where? It’s a pretty scary prospect. I’d guess better avoided. But the better question is why doesn’t FDIC just increase the coverage amounts?

Canyon Dancer
Canyon Dancer (@guest_1998130)
February 4, 2025 17:32

And it might be distributed evenly amongst the other banks, because they inform their clients to tell them if they have accounts with any of the banks listed, to avoid possible conflicts where a single depositor might have an account (another independent account with the same bank thus effectively limiting coverage) with any of the Wealthfront partner banks. I’d hate to be in these Synapse depositors shoes.

Naddi
Naddi (@guest_1963594)
December 3, 2024 19:28

Please stop calling them “fintech bank”. They aren’t banks. The term “bank” is a regulated term and only FDIC-insured institutions are allowed to call themselves a bank. No other business is permitted to use the term “bank” in their business name.

tuphat
tuphat (@guest_1963889)
December 4, 2024 12:28

Well said. I had the same immediate reaction upon first reading the post.

Eric 🔗
Eric 🔗 (@guest_1964089)
December 4, 2024 18:31

To be fair, many people here write “fake DD” when there is really no such thing and you and many others seem fine with that. 😉

Jay
Jay (@guest_1965080)
December 5, 2024 23:00

That’s also significantly less consequential! I know you’re being cheeky and all that.

Jack
Jack (@guest_1965407)
December 6, 2024 12:36

There’s no such thing as “fake DD”? What do you mean by that? Would it be better to call it an illegitimate DD? Eric 🔗

Eric 🔗
Eric 🔗 (@guest_1965421)
December 6, 2024 12:54

Jack,

Unlike most people on here, I don’t mind being questioned on comments that I make. I’m glad that you asked.

I just pulled this definition from the below website: “The term direct deposit refers to the deposit of funds electronically into a bank account rather than through a physical, paper check. Direct deposit requires the use of an electronic network that allows deposits to take place between banks. This network is called the automated clearing house (ACH).”

Therefore, any ACH transfer is basically a DD. When people write “fake DD”, they really mean that they are trying to trick the system into thinking that it is a QDD. It would be more accurate to write “fake QDD”. I prefer to write “fake” DD. To each their own. 😀

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/directdeposit.asp

JD
JD (@guest_1965432)
December 6, 2024 13:02

Maybe you should page that guy again…

Eric 🔗
Eric 🔗 (@guest_1965445)
December 6, 2024 13:06
  JD

I would but I don’t converse with that person anymore. Did you forget?

sg77
sg77 (@guest_1966909)
December 9, 2024 15:50

My piggy bank isn’t FDIC insured?

eddieflynn
eddieflynn (@guest_1974120)
December 23, 2024 13:29

What about sperm banks?

Sergei
Sergei (@guest_1963576)
December 3, 2024 19:01

Having an Evolve account and routing # apparently means nothing – I had both as part of my Juno account. Evolve still claims they don’t have my ~$400.

Eric 🔗
Eric 🔗 (@guest_1964092)
December 4, 2024 18:32

That’s rough that you lost your entire $400. A rep from Evolve told me recently that it’s possible that all of us will be made whole one day. I wouldn’t count on it though.

Tonei Glavinic
Tonei Glavinic (@guest_1966753)
December 9, 2024 10:17

Lots of people lost way more unfortunately. I’m out over $5k. Some people had five and six figure balances with Juno that evolve claims not to have.