One of the advantage of using a credit card is that if the goods or services aren’t delivered, you can issue a charge back with your card issuer and have the transaction refunded. The United States Court of Appeals
Tenth Circuit just decided an interesting case (really two cases: MALIK M. HASAN, M.D v CHASE BANK USA, N.A & MALIK M. HASAN, M.D v AMERICAN EXPRESS CENTURION
BANK). I’d recommend reading the case in full, but here’s my brief summary:
- Malik Hasan ordered wine from Premier Cru Fine Wines (Premier Cru) for future delivery.
- In January 2016, Premier Cru declared bankruptcy
- Premier Cru delivered some, but not all of the wine ordered. Malik Hasan had the following amounts undelivered:
- 689,176.92 with his Chase card
- $379,153.72 with his American Express card
- Malik Hasan filed a chargeback with both Chase & American Express. Chase agreed to credit and credited $100,136.88 and American Express refused to credit anything
- Malik Hasan filed a lawsuit seeking
- $589,040.04 from Chase
- $379,153.72 from American Express
The core of the case relates to Fair Credit Billing Act (an amendment to the Truth in Lending Act). Specifically section § 1666i (p9-10). Chase & American Express were able to successfully argue that because Malik Hasan had paid his balance, they weren’t required to honor the charge back.
On principal I disagree with the implications this decision has. Consumers shouldn’t be required to carry a credit card balance that usually incurs high fees and interest rates to have access to a consumer protection. In some cases it’s unreasonable to expect delivery of an item to be within a credit cards grace period, this would force a consumer to have to incur these fees to still be protected by a charge back.
Hat tip to View From The Wing
Amen… being forced to carry a balance, especially that high, just in case you don’t receive your order…this is kinda scary…Jesus Walks with Us.
Some banks have reportedly been taking this stand for a couple of years.
I am actually involved in such a situation with a “prepaid gasoline” service called myGallons. I bought gas in 2015 & 2016 using a Citi card, and the company stopped paying out redemptions this past fall (with the website shutting down at year-end). I disputed the 2016 charge online (it let me do it since the transaction history was there) but Citi denied the 2015 charge dispute, saying it had been more than 60 days since the statement. So far, the one dispute has not been reversed (it will be more complicated by the fact Citi sold that card to AMEX since I initiated the dispute). Since the dispute is only $92, maybe Citi will just let it slide.
typically what i like to do in this scenario is use stolen credit cards. that way, you dont need to bother with a charge back in case the delivery doesnt happen because the actual owner of the CC will be handling that for you.
good wisdom!
err.. what.? if you use stolen credit cards, why limit it to this scenario..?
Just a comment on the way the post is written, it doesn’t specifically mention the outcome of the case (presumably that the court ruled in favor of the banks).
I’ve added that they were successfully able to argue their case to make it clearer.
“The community has come to know Dr. Malik Hasan as a combination of influential businessman, neurologist and the namesake of CSU-Pueblo’s growing business school. … Hasan turned his sights on cannabis research in 2015, after obtaining a Marijuana Enforcement Division business license. Hasan is also licensed to grow recreational marijuana for wholesale purposes within the city of Pueblo. ” https://pulpnewsmag.com/q-a-re-envisioning-pueblo-through-medical-marijuana-fa6736c141ad
LOL! NOW we know how he can afford to blow a million on bubbly…
Chase and Amex should not be on the hook for this guy’s bad pre-purchase decision, he should instead have bought an insurance policy if such policy is available. it is like he used a chase card to buy some stocks, if the stocks lost value, he filed charge back on his chase card. credit card is not for protecting bad business/purchase decision, insurance/hedging is.
How are payments considered to be applied? What if Hasan still owed Amex $379,153.72 but from other purchases?
Sheesh, this set off a political debate powder keg. I agree the precedence it sets isn’t good. But we’re talking about 600k in charges here. Not even remotely in the same league as normal consumers. More B2B or Scrooge McDuck. I’d be surprised if they lept on this and started telling all consumers that paid their bills that they can no longer process a charge back. That would really piss people off.
A question,what if I have a vacation package on lay away and the company goes bankrupt,will my sapphire reserve covers that?