Update 10/26/22: Card is now live.
Original post: Greenlight (family fintech) has launched a new credit card called ‘Family Cash Credit Card‘ and it has an interesting rewards structure as follows:
-
Earn 3% when you spend $4,000+ monthly
-
Earn 2% when you spend $1,000 – $3,999 monthly
-
Earn 1% when you spend <$1,000 monthly
The card is in waitlist mode at the moment (meaning you can’t actually apply for the card). If you’re in one of the first 1,000 applicants when it does launch there is a $100 bonus when you spend $750+. People with the most referrals will be higher on the waitlist so I suspect it’ll be difficult to be one of the first 1,000. Greenlight also has a $4.95 monthly fee.
Cards that earn 3% cash back on all purchases aren’t sustainable long term, but it’s more a matter of how long the 3% will last and if you can take advantage of it with enough spend to make it worth it. Greenlight has raised $500m in funds according to crunchbase. Please do not share your referrals in the comments.
Hat tip to SquareVehicle
I’m going to make this as clear as day for you so you stop spreading bad information.
Credit Card ➡️ Gebit ➡️ Money Order is NOT TAXABLE.
Credit Card ➡️ Money Order
Credit Card ➡️ Reloadable Debit Card
is taxable but is not possible to do today. You cannot buy money orders or reload a debit card directly with a credit card anymore except in very select locations with outrageous interest and fees including cash advances.
I know you are confused. 2013/2014 is not 2022. What you could do during that time you cannot do now. I am not here to attack or disparage you but I cannot let you further spread misinformation.
I am posting this as a new comment so everyone sees cashback is not taxable.
https://www.doctorofcredit.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/KONSTANTIN-ANIKEEV-AND-NADEZHDA-ANIKEEV-Petitioners-v-COMMISSIONER-OF-INTERNAL-R.pdf
So glad you are not out to personally attack anyone in a post tagging people you have disparaged. So glad you could finally be bothered to read this at least a little even though you clearly still did not read the case text or understand what it set as precedent, but hey! Yeah, gotta get credit for moving up lightyears past your bogus assertion that this was all hypothetical since now you know it. It is amazing how you have to rationalize about this when the tax court was very clear about what you want to bring into the light when really you’re dumping the bulk of this in the shadows to toot your own horn. Dude, it doesn’t matter to me some couple got dinged in tax court but when you called it as they “emerged victorious” I mean what the hell? Ending up paying back taxes to 7+ years ago is emerging victorious? Rose-colored glasses man that the court threw out the IRS argument on the gift cards which again is what you keep on harping on and again was the first dang thing you got called out on because you were going on about what was specifically excluded “non-GC” dude! The fact is the rationale in the court case text is what sets the precedent man not the judgment against one couple despite how you framed it when describing what you somehow claim is a victory. The important part there is that the purchases you earn cash back on and how you use rewards has been opened up to a whole new realm of taxation if they aren’t deemed goods or services! It doesn’t matter what you can do in 2022 versus 2013 as it’s not about the couple to me it is about the precedent and that is the only reason the vast majority are going to care cause I doubt anyone be shedding tears over this couple having to pay thousands on any part of their MS profits. Oh yeah, and that gift cards are now also considered taxable assets too in the case text was not a win for any of us unless ya start trying to claim on taxes losses to inflation over time on gift card value. That’s two major hits in the case text that hurt for the next time this goes to court and it’s now precedent. Also so glad you like to put your money where your mouth is on making absolute statements like there is no situation in which someone should take the annuity option on the lottery to equivocate. I will go there since this is so hard for you, but if you come out to personally attack again “yer done” as far as I am concerned. What a responsible advisor should be saying is it depends not “always take yer lump sums boy.” Since no advisor in your world of absolutes would ever tell anyone to take anything other than the lump sum, maybe the same… Read more »
Some people don’t know how to walk away when they look like a fool. I feel sorry for you.
You can keep on rambling cause you have already been proven wrong and continue to spread bullshit. Reply with your other username Lyte. Let him join the party. 🤣
@Arch Relax: this isn’t about tagging/educating; commenting at the top reframes this tangent and its context away from all the original comments. No one reading DoC’s Greenlight post needs a top warning on this sub-topic unless the commenter fears their original comments are too weak to support their position in context. You can tell as: (1) there wasn’t a peep about the community here until I showed my intent with continuing due to that first (my mistake), (2) using the reference that wasn’t theirs with a bit of tax truth focuses a spotlight on the part that’s true and casts the rest of the truth from that case into the shadows on the fringes of said spotlight by making it their own; and, (3) they’re obsessing over upvotes (!) to carry their comments and deliberately putting their finger right on lumping us together pre-emptively to diminish those disagreeing to one voice, which you played into by attacking their low-hanging fruit on multiple fronts. The facts are referenced and there for folks to figure it out: breathe and don’t feed the trolls.
It’s so funny when you talk to your own usernames in third person. The best part, you can’t edit or delete your comments so the community can see how much of an idiot you are. It’s a shame since aside from this thread, you do give good information. Too bad it is overshadowed by your smart ass getting schooled repeatably.
I suggest getting your split personality narcissistic disorder looked after.
I feel like this rate is almost guaranteed to drop to 2% within 24 months or they’ll crack down hard on MS type spend. Either way, probably only decent for folks who actually put $4k+ organic spend on a card already
Long live Alliant Credit Union Visa Signature credit card!!
I’m so glad I got the AOD FCU 3% Visa. It’s such a great card of all non-category spend. A pity that it no longer available for new signups 🙁
x1 card looks better for me than this one. Only $15k spend per year + no monthly fee
Paceline gives me 3% on everything with no spend requirement sooo
You are required to spend $120 (used to be $60 but now only for the first year apparently) just on their annual fee (at least $60.60 more than a year’s worth of the monthly fees on this Greenlight card, that’s without even accounting for the time-value of money since one is $120 upfront and the other is spread out). That means for this to be better you have to spend at least enough on the Paceline (assuming the fiddly bits always subject to change weekly don’t come back to bite you even one time as they have to many people) to outdo the fee difference accounting for the cash back difference to be equivalent; and then, you can tally your improved gains from there up to the $3,999.99 of monthly spend you put on the card, yes.
There are a multitude of scenarios where Paceline (even as it theoretically works assuming you jump through all the physical hoops for activity there weekly) would not be good for everyone (especially since it’s a Visa), but if it works for you: great!
Fees are compensated by $10 giftcards each month from Paceline
I looked at my cardholder agreement and I don’t see anything about a $120 annual fee. It is still $60 for now. And I have more than made up for it by meeting the weekly exercise goals ($81 since March).
That’s interesting, because they told me since August the $60 is only a temporary reduction in annual fee in 2022 and going back up to $120 after the first year. Historically it has been $120 annual fee and sounds like that’s their long term plan still. Looks like the card terms at the $120 fee are still cached on their website and also mentioned on other sites:
https://basictravelcouple.com/2022/03/21/how-im-exercising-my-way-to-a-free-apple-watch-paceline-promotion/
Congratulations on making up for the fee though!
Personally I make way more on the fitness goals for Walgreens/AARP weekly than this cash back could ever offer for my non-category spend and my category spend cards make more than the 5% (mutliple versions of 5.25% BoA CCR; 5.5% CC w/ Rewards+; ~6% Discover (only redeem at 20% bonus), and 7.5% Freedom/Ink > Ultimate Rewards). I could dip in on the health data for more rewards in cash back too I guess, but the amount I’d have to spend to justify the .375% increase in cash back for the annual fee and app fiddling is not worth it to me over the 2.625% BoA UCR.
How do you get the 7.5% on freedom?
Also do you mind elaborating on these aarp/walgreens fitness challenges? I’ve not heard of those.
Sure, you can book refundable travel with Chase Freedom/Ink Ultimate Rewards at 1.5x UR value, then cancel with no obligation or fees to cash it out at the increased value for literal cash that usually they send as a check in the mail (of course, if you actually travel it works for that also, in which case you could be buying nonrefundable which is a more reasonable cost to actually use). You have to be cautious as the transferred travel credit may not be redeemed for refundable fare at all the travel partners and it changes every time I go in to do it (not permanently though, some of the ones that don’t allow it then later do, so I just choose usually whoever I have had the best/easiest cancellation experiences with previously). If you aren’t interested in that, they also offer ~6% cash back value like Discover if you just trade in for gift cards you’re going to use anyway when they go up for a discount. I’ve never had a situation where I couldn’t get the 7.5% CB though so I leave that for my Discover where their extra/added value is actually worth slightly more than a discount of the same level at Chase.
AARP gives a 25% boost to myWalgreens health rewards which you have to enroll in on Mondays only, then you average $2-$3 before the bonus and can even do all this by email after sign up. You might want to act fast to enroll next Monday as I think they’re ending new enrollments soon. They also count for AARP Rewards activity, which then also gets you points, which then also count for rotating gift card redemptions at extremely crazy discounts (not even considering you get them for free with points). Basically, without any app fiddling I get $15-$20 weekly with no “spend” at all for doing “healthy” things and I don’t need to snuggle up with a health device (you can literally leave AARP videos go on a device you don’t use to get more points, but you’ll max out per day so it’s pointless after you hit the max) or to pay any annual/membership fee (it looks like AARP membership could be worth it for 50% bonus points until you understand how easy it maxes out daily).
@Lyt What sites do you use to book refundable travel? Thanks
Sure, I always start at the Chase travel portal to see what the current offerings are, and the last time I got a refund in cash for travel booked on points I got it from Expedia by check (not to my account as refund/statement credit), and will probably do this again soon to see who I do it with this time. The providers usually have rules about how far in advance you must be to cancel refundable airfare/hotel bookings (I believe 8 days may be the minimum). Usually I book it out as far in advance as possible, wait 60 days and then cancel for my refund.
milesperday guy made over $3K cashback in a single month with Paceline. I was impressed.
Impressed is one word for it, but it’s got an effective cap/limit called you get shut down:
https://milesperday.com/2022/07/paceline-credit-card-shuts-me-down/
Hit it, quit it, and do it again if you can. He did what takes us 10 years with BofA in one month for many months. I would equate his entire paceline cashback haul to 20-40 years of BofA. 99.99% of us wouldnt be in the game that long.
He also had the cashback profit available to use now which after 20-40 years, you can only imagine what it can turn into. I’m like you more conservative but I would choose his route if I could. I need to pay a MS cashier under the books or plant one of my own kids behind the counter.
Well, there are a few concerns:
1. Recent court cases that have ruled cash back should be treated as taxable income without limit into the past when it was deemed an activity engaged in with intent to profit. (The credit card companies involved in these cases have provided to the courts records far exceeding a mere 7 years back in activity that would be reflected on credit reports.)
2. Flyertalk forum users who have been locked out over a decade due to MS activity and really no longer-term data available as to when/if ever they will be permitted back in on “the game.”
3. The risk that having large cash back amounts in one year will have (however improperly) additional implications for tax versus smaller gains over a longer period of time.
4. The amount of time it takes to engage in this activity to gain in excess of normal spend versus the amount of time it takes to engage in regular work activity to generate profit efficiently (for me and my standards anyway).
I typically generate at least $500 in the mentioned BoA CCR account (double that to $1k due to my second rebranded CCR) alone every year with the 5.25% cash back (without accounting for the BoA offers on top of that)…so, I don’t know how you figure what he did “in one month” is 10, 20 or 40 years worth to get said $3k in cash back rewards or what investment right now is reliably outpacing inflation to the degree you feel that’s reasonable. Getting locked out from getting it on my normal spend annually for an indefinite period because I felt like trying to see what I could get away with seems like (at best) an irresponsible choice for my financial future.
If the card is good enough to use regularly for me, then I intend to keep it unless I know for sure it and the institution that owns it are going down hard and fast and are not being bought out by someone else who may use the financial data against me to close other value-added accounts (or block me from potentially more valuable future accounts). To date, I haven’t had the temptation to do that.
The tax implications you bring up is a wash point since it applies to all of us. Also what “recent cases” are you referring to as I’m sure it would have been brought up on DoC or other churning sites?
Paceline is a fintech. Getting banned by them is a no biggie. Hit it, quit it, move on to the next MS card.
I would rather have a lump sum money now rather than small payouts over time. Vinh had the card for at least 5 months and he MS’d from day one. I’m not dick riding him but I envy his hustle game and his ability to do many things at once. Paceline was only a part of his entire hustle, look at everything else he does on his site.
I want the money to use now. Time in the market beats timing the market. I would choose his way over our way if I had the ability to do so. To each their own.
It is not a “wash point” on taxes: the amount and frequency of what you are doing to earn cash back may count as earnings because of the amount and frequency indicating your intent in doing so as decided by the tax court in addition to what exactly you are “purchasing” that you earn cash back for in the first place. That is entirely the point.
I’m not sure what you’ve been reading recently, so I don’t mean to offend here by citing the very website you profess is not doing us justice on the topic; but, DoC absolutely has indeed posted on some of these and been discussing it since at least 2017:
https://www.doctorofcredit.com/thoughts-taxes-miles-points-cash-back/
https://www.doctorofcredit.com/tax-court-rules-cash-reward-profits-from-credit-card-manufactured-spend-to-be-taxable/
If you think 5 months of $3,000 (which is not what he reported making incidentally) is worthwhile to be shut down over, you don’t know that fintechs like Paceline run everything through the payment processors and banks just like any financial institution (who also get access to their data as disclosed in their privacy information), and you don’t believe any of that could ever be taxable by artificially increasing your spending to game a card; well, it is not my duty to police what you do or think. However, I do owe it other readers who help me all the time on here to represent this as accurately as possible so they can then do their reading and then make informed decisions as that’s what’s awesome about this website.
5 years later after those posts, Cashback is still not taxable. You are basing all your comments on hypotheticals as I suspected.
Anyways, It is a wash point because if HE gets taxed on cashback, YOU get taxed too.
You keep misinterpreting what 5 months of MS he did. He made over $3K in ONE month. I can make an estimated guess he made $10K cashback within that 5 months. There is no comparison with his one card earning that much in a short period of time with your multiple cards not even earning 10% of that in the same time.
Wow, no points for reading what was linked from 2021 since in that case on DoC (this website so I’m not even having to go to other websites where there are numerous other cases discussed), the MSer DID END UP PAYING TAXES ON CASH BACK THEY EARNED which the tax court found in favor of the IRS because: (1) amount and frequency of cash back earning indicated intent to profit and (2) money orders and other non-GC financial transactions were not considered a good or service and therefore ineligible for rebate.
I do not get taxed because of how I do it (frequency, amount, what I purchase) unless the company mistakenly sends a 1099 (which has also happened to some people in the past) and if I get a 1099 and the IRS does not agree with me illegitimately (because what I do should not be taxable) then I will have to fight them on it (which has historically not been fun), which is time and potentially money I don’t want to spend on it. If you refuse to acknowledge the risk or you are unable to read and understand when people have paid taxes on cash back and the circumstances, then I cannot help you further.
You don’t even read your own links.
“However, the IRS did not make that claim; they had claimed that the purchase of Visa gift cards constitutes a gain based on the Reward Dollars received which the court ruled incorrect, and the consumer has emerged victorious.”
Click the above bolded text in your link posted which leads to https://activerain.com/blogsview/5632086/big-win-for-green—sklarz-in-the-united-states-tax-court-
For you to continually state cashback is taxable is WRONG. I do not want you to mislead people which you are. You are wrong. Cashback is NOT TAXABLE. Period. End of story.
You also fail to comprehend profit is profit. In addition, money now is better than money later. Would you pick the $1 billion powerball lottery winnings lump sum or pay out over time? Every single financial advisor in the world says lump sum.
Dude, you are totally not reading this: the tax court made the couple pay taxes on their cash back. Konstantin Anikeev and Nadezhda Anikeev v. Commissioner of Internal Revenue. Stop cherry-picking, go read and stop misleading everyone else. This guy specifically said not on gift cards because that is exactly what the ruling was.
You’re an idiot. Read it again and read what I wrote below.
CASHBACK IS NOT TAXABLE.
BTW, you can like all your own comments if that makes you feel better when you use a different alias (Arch/Lyte) and IP. What a coincidence all your comments increase by 1 except for the one you used to comment all at the same time. 🤣
I let real folks do the liking. I should’ve just ended your entire argument instead of entertain it for shits and giggles. You debate with all hypotheticals.
What if the earth gets hit by an asteroid?
What if Santa Claus was real?
I have one for you. How about what if you get hit by metro bus tomorrow? Zero cashback for you. Debate class should’ve taught you to argue with facts. There is no comparison with all your capped cards to a heavy hitter MSer.
And you certainly are hitting a new low when you pretend your aliases Arch is not Lyte, and are totally different people. Talking about yourself in third person? Look at your own comment history with Arch LOL.
On the separate topic of how much money earned is not worth being shut down over, there is nothing to misinterpret: he made over $3,000 in cash back in ONE MONTH. You and he have not disclosed how much he made over X months to be shut down over. I stated even if he made over $3,000 a month over 5 months (which is generous), my opinion is that is still not worth it to me to be shut down over because I personally make more than that on a 5% card accumulating time-value of the money each year over your postulated 10, 20 and 40 year periods where you think that money is worth more upfront. As I said, I don’t know what investments you think are outpacing current inflation to project in your modeling, but in mine that doesn’t pan out even if you claim without evidence it was $10,000 as I don’t know how you’ve estimated someone else’s unstated expenses over several months.
Now that we got your tax argument settled. I’ll answer your comment with my previous comment.
“You also fail to comprehend profit is profit. In addition, money now is better than money later. Would you pick the $1 billion powerball lottery winnings lump sum or pay out over time? Every single financial advisor in the world says lump sum.”
BTW inflation affects ALL OF US. MSer or not. So your inflation argument is a moot point. Next topic.
agreed, but biggest problem how to MS it properly. Maybe booking refundable travel? If travel costs e.g. $10k it is $300 profit.
That is the magic question which separates a Heavy Hitter vs. Small Time MSer.
AF is $60 tho
I have it but I cannot pay it from PayPal bills so no additional cashback from debit card payments.
I bet this will be dead pretty quickly, so I have no desire to apply.
any DP on using with plastiq for mortgage payments?
Yes, with at least three mortgage providers currently as far as my personal experience this year.
That said, this would only be a decent fit for that if your monthly mortgage payments are far greater than $4,000 a month or your other spend combined with your mortgage cannot be better served going with category cards, CCR 5.25% MC credit spend (2.4% net on Plastiq with $2,500/quarter/card with any of the multiple card options) or prepaid gift cards. After the $4.95 monthly fee at $4,000 spend (including Plastiq fees) you only see $1.05 cash back gain per month over the Plastiq fees…that hardly seems worth even the inquiry unless you’ve got mountain loads of non-category spend. That’s more than one shut down transaction worth of fees on $4,000 of Plastiq spend if that’s all you’d had within the first decade. Personally, I would bet on at least one snafu with everything in the payment chain to keep working out for the next 10 years with no negative changes on any of the involved parties.
This would be more attractive if it were a Visa. My Costco spend alone would cover the $4k.
Seriously looking into the USB Altitude Reserve Visa.
Altitude Reserve is my favorite Costco card. I use Samsung Pay and get 3% cash back. If you spend that much each month then it would seem to be a good fit.
Well my Vantage West Credit Union Connect Visa Signature is my costco credit card and everything else Alliant Credit Union Visa Signature credit card!
1. US Bank Altitude Reserve Visa has a $400 annual fee -$325 in easy credit for any dining or travel (like CSR)=$75 net annual fee. 3% straight cashback uncapped when using mobile wallet (Apple Pay, Google Pay, etc), with boost to 4.5% if redeemed for travel (no portal necessary). Works great for Costco.
2. Alliant Visa Cashback Visa – NO fee, with just $1000 bank account balance requirement; 2.5% cashback up to $10K/mo cap, then 1.5%. It is a real cashback card, not points, and it has been working for me.
i find #2 painful.
1. Opt in to receive eStatements; and
2. At least one electronic deposit posted to the account each calendar month (direct deposit, ATM deposit, mobile check deposit or transfer from another financial institution); and
3. Maintain an average daily balance of $1,000 or more
New cardholders will automatically earn Tier One rewards for the first 100 days after card approval.
I agree. The Alliant card was great for the first couple of years but I think they lost so much money that they started adding in all the stealth nerfs. It’s sock-drawered for me for about a year and a half now. I switched to BoA’s 2.625% and 5.25% cards.
Not so, I just maintain $1K in my checking, have an automated $5 ACH transfer each other and 2.5% cash back on everything Alliant Credit Union Visa Signature!! It’s not that laborious as you’re histrionically making it to be!!
okay, let me try automation. 2.5% sounds good. and no foreign transaction